Interview with: Dr. Nettie Parler (NP)

Date of Interview: July 20, 1989
Interviewer: Dr. Robert V. Williams (RW)
Transcriber: Sabra Bell, Donna Dedmondt
Permission to Use Restrictions

RW: Mrs. Parler, could tell us when you were born, and something about your family background; who they were and so forth.

NP: I was born in Gaffney, South Carolina on January 16, 1915.

RW: Gaffney, SC?

NP: Yes.

RW: And your family, are they native South Carolinians?

NP: Yes, they're native South Carolinians. I lived in Gaffney South Carolina during most of my formative years. We did move away to Pennsylvania for awhile, near Pittsburgh, PA, but we moved back to SC and I got much of my early education in Gaffney.

RW: What about your mother and father: what were their occupations and their education?

NP: My mother was an elementary school teacher. And my father was a machinist for the Gaffney Manufacturing Company. My mother stopped work after she had five children; I was the oldest of the five. She was teaching during my early years but as the family grew, it got a little burdensome, so she stopped to take care of us.

RW: How many brothers and sisters?

NP: Three brothers and a sister.

RW: So your family from the earliest times were very education-conscious.

NP: Yes, very; as far back as I can remember we were.

RW: So they insisted that you finish high school and go on to college.

NP: Oh yes, there was no question that we'd finish high school and go on as far as college. I went to elementary school for a while in PA and came back to Gaffney when we moved back there and I entered high school there. Then my mother insisted that I go to a private high school. She thought that my educational chances would be enhanced... my secondary education would be enhanced by so doing. Therefore, she sent me to Claffin Preparatory School... it was a high school connected with Claflin College... and that's where I finished high school. And I stayed on and went to college at Claflin.

RW: So you were sent away from home?

NP: Oh yes. For a long time. I left Gaffney at an early age, and really never went back to stay for any length of time. The longest I stayed there--- after becoming an adult -- was for the three years I taught at Bernard High School. I went to Bernard High School immediately upon graduation from Claflin as an English teacher. Then after teaching there for three years I came to Orangeburg, South Carolina, upon getting married to a native of Orangeburg. And I began to work at South Carolina State. Actually, I worked in the city school system about four years, and then I came to South Carolina State College to work. In the meantime, I was continuing my education. I went on to Columbia University and got a Master's Degree, and after I started to work at South Carolina State College, I still continued my education, and eventually got a Ph.d. degree from New York University in 1952.

RW: Now, all these degrees were in English?

NP: Yes

RW: And the Ph.D was from NYU in 1952? Now you were teaching when you finished your undergraduate degree?

NP: I only taught two classes before coming to South Carolina State College. I taught at Bernard High School in Gaffney. Then I got married. I came to Orangeburg, and taught in the Orangeburg City School System, and then came on to South Carolina State College. And stayed here until I retired -- for 37 years.

RW: Now, the man [James Carter Parler] you married was from Orangeburg?

NP: Yes.

RW: And you knew him at Clafin?

NP: He's a graduate of South Carolina State College. I met him when I was attending class.

RW: So you came to Orangeburg, and stayed except for those years going back up north to school?

NP: Yes. To get the two degrees.

RW: How did you happen to choose Columbia and NYU?

NP: Because of certain influences of people with whom I was either working or with whom I was aquainted through various organizations, or work. I have been active in English teaching organizations -- organizations of English teachers -- for a long, long time. And with various people I knew along the way. I knew nothing about either one. After I got to know them, I enjoyed both of them.

RW: So you started teaching at S. C. State in 1944?

NP: Right. '44.

RW: And that was with a condition, also, that you go back and get a degree?

NP: Yes, it was. I was advised early that to be successful as a college teacher, one needed to get a terminal degree in one's field. And I kept on going.

RW: It must have been quite a struggle. Were you working part time while you were at Columbia College?

NP: No. I worked full time. I was very lucky in that I got scholarships to study. When I was near my doctorate, I needed help to sustain me while I finished my thesis, and the college picked up the expenses for me then. I have forgotten what kind of funds were available, but through the college I got enough money to go back for a semester to do nothing except to complete my dissertation. Then I returned back to my job full time. And I stayed until I retired.

RW: When did you start back then? So in 1944 you were teaching at State. And then at Columbia you had gotten your degree... ?

NP: Yes, I had gotten my master's degree. In there somewhere I had gone to some summer sessions, but the summer sessions were at NYU, as I recall. Then, I got a General Education Board fellowship and went back, I think the years were 1948 or 1949, for a full academic year. And I finished all the course work. I had finished the preliminary examinations and all of that, and I think that my dissertation -- my topic and all -- had been pretty well determined before I came back to work full time. I didn't know what was going to happen after that because I realized that I could not work full time and do the rest of it. So, I began to look around for other ways to finance the rest of my education. In the meantime I was gathering information, doing research and all that, and that's when the president of our college at that time called me into his office and said that he wanted me to complete my work for my degree as soon as I could. He asked me how long I thought it would take me. That's a question we never answered, because we don't know in cases like that, and I apprised him of that. But I told him, "If I am helped to do this, I will get it as quickly as I can." And so, he said, well, the best thing he could offer me was help for one semester, and that put me under an awful lot of pressure for it.

RW: You went back and finished that quickly.

NP: That's right. And in the meantime, I had a child. My daughter had been born in 1946. And I had that responsibility, and my husband was most co-operative and most helpful, because he wanted me to finish. And my mother helped me, she took care of my child for me while I finished. And it all worked out very well.

RW: Did you consider working 25 hours a day?

NP: That's right. And everything was going, I thought, very well for me. Then, the very last of the year 1960, during the Christmas holidays, my husband got suddenly ill, and I lost him the first day of the year 1961. And my world began to fall apart. Because I had a young daughter, who had to be educated,and I had lost the supporter of my efforts, and I had... well... I picked up the pieces, and went on. My young daughter was an excellent student. She was just entering high school when she lost her father. She decided that she no longer wanted to go to school here, because her father was the administrative officer of all the city schools at that time, and having gone to school under his guidance and supervision, and having been taken to school every morning by him...He would put her out at the gymnasium, at the high school campus. That was where his funeral was held, because he was a very, very popular man. Very well thought of, and they had to have the funeral where they could accomodate most of the people. And that was the biggest building available to us at that time. So it had a psychological effect on my daughter and she was not able, she thought, to cope with that scene for the rest of her high school career. She started talking to me about going to a prep school. I had no idea even how to send her to a prep school, but there again the president of our college came to my rescue. Dr. Durney's children were in prep school in the northeast, and he said that if I wanted to send my daughter -- she was a brilliant young lady, and he thought she'd make it -- he would help me. And he did. He got her into the prep school in New England, and on the commencement day at her prep school, there were eleven awards given and she got seven of them! So she had her choice of going to Mt. Holyoke, Sarah Lawrence, Wellesley, Radcliff, and Smith. They were all offering her scholarships. She chose Mt. Holyoke because Mt. Holyoke, in her opinion, had the best science department and she wanted to be a doctor. And Mt. Holyoke also had a reputation of getting its girls admitted to the medical schools of their choice, so she said that's where she wanted to go. And I went along with her choice. She graduated from Mt. Holyoke and was admitted to Tufts Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts. She graduated from Tufts, and was quite undecided as to what specialty she wanted, so she went out to California to Kaiser Foundation Hospital as an intern. She took a kind of general internship and decided that she wanted to go into plastic surgery. She came back east to Yale University for two years of general surgery. She had to complete two years of residency in general surgery to get into plastic surgery. And she followed a professor who had been kind of a mentor for her to the State University of New York at Stoneybrook. He was directing a program there -- a residency program. And it was very rough for girls at that time in surgery, general surgery, and she knew she had to get through general surgery with a good record if she wanted to go on. She went to this program and graduated from general surgery there and went on into plastic surgery, and is, today, a plastic surgeon.

RW: Where does she live?

NP: East Brunsford, New Jersey.

RW: She certainly has done well. You must be really proud of her.

NP: Well, I certainly am. I am proud of the fact that I was able to do it by myself. Because it was a little difficult, and I am proud that I had the stamina to get through it and so did she. We are very close. You are lucky to catch me here now, because I spend much of my time with her these days.

RW: Now, all of this time your daughter was going to school, you were teaching here... English?

NP: Yes. I started off as just an instructor in English, then I was gradually promoted from rank to rank. The president of our college at that time wanted me to complete my work because he needed a head of the then Department of English. As soon as I did the work for the doctorate, he promoted me to that position, and I got a promotion in rank. I think I was an associate professor at that time. I had been an assistant professor for a long time. He asked me to reorganize the department because he thought we weren't serving the students in a maximum way. So he sent me to study programs, instructional programs, in other schools, and asked me to recommend what I thought would be best for us here at South Carolina State College, for students who wanted training in speech, and in drama, and in English. Well, we didn't have enought students to set up departments in all those areas, so I came back with the information and with the recommendation that we go to a communications idea, and establish a communications center. And we did, and we offered degrees in drama, English, and other training. Not degrees, but training in speech pathology and also in general speech. And of course I was able to bring to the program enough well-trained people in those areas to carry on a pretty fair program. I was especially proud of what we did in speech pathology and audiology because there came along a young man who was really very good in the area. He was an excellent scholar, and he was excellent in many aspects of that field. So we began to push him as far as we could toward becoming well-trained in an area that he liked very much and wanted--and which we hardly had any in the South. As I said, we weren't offering a degree in it, but he graduated with a major emphasis in these courses, and we were able to get a fellowship for him to Penn State University, and he did so well there. He got his Master's degree and stayed on afterward, and we were able to encourage him to come back to us after he was well-prepared. He did, and he began to develop the program here. He developed it so well that four years after he came back we were able to separate that facet from the communications center, and develop a Department of Speech Pathology and Audiology and it is now one of the best in the Southeast. In fact, it is one of the few departments of its kind. His name is Harold Pollack (?) and he started here, and he is still part of the college. It is one of the things I am proud of... that came out of this organization... our programs under that umbrella that we called communications.

RW: Now, somewhere early on you have a library connection....?.

NP: I received my degree at the Barnard High School in Gaffney, South Carolina. I had worked there, as I recall.....

RW: Now, it says here [Who’s Who in the South and Southwest, 1973-74 edition]'36 - '39, teacher, elementary school.

NP: It should say high school, Gaffney, S. C., teacher of English. Bernard High School.

RW: That's right. Teacher of English. O.K.

NP: Now, it was at that time, after I had taken off about a year, it was decided by the administration of the school, that we must have a library. We had no library. And we were able to get some books as I recall, from the district...the school district. An allocation was made. And we also had gifts from various organizations and individuals. These books were all placed in one of the classrooms.

RW: Now this was at the black high school.

NP: At Barnard. A black high school with no library. Now you would think that in the thirties, that would not have pertained, but it did. There was just no library at all.

RW: How large was this high school?

NP: I suppose we had about 600 students. It wasn't a big school.

RW: It was pretty good size for that time.

NP: For that time. And for some reason it was thought that the English teacher was better prepared to do this...because there was nobody in the high school trained in library science. I was given the task of trying to organize a library. And as I said, I had had no training for this at all.

RW: No courses at Claflin or State?

NP: No courses at State or Columbia in library science. So I began to read what I could find, and, as I recall, I was coming back and forth to Orangeburg -- because I wasn't married at that time -- and this was ... my fiance was living in Orangeburg, and I would come back and forth to various things on the college campuses... both campuses. And I was in touch with people who were trained in library science, and I remember talking with them and they encouraged me to do the best I could with it. At some point I went back to Columbia University and took a non-credit course---I was trying to recall the title of that course but I can't recall the exact title—that had something to do with teacher librarianship. And I did learn a little that helped me to get the books organized and the circulation going. That kind of thing. Because it would have been tragic if we had all of those books just piled up there and no way to circulate them among our students. The need was so great that....

RW: Now you were teaching full time?

NP: I was teaching full time.

RW: In...

NP: Yes, I was trying to recall what time was given to me during the day. We had something like homeroom, or something like that, and that time was given to me to do what I could with the library. As I recall, my schedule was reduced to about four classes. But that was full-time teaching. And I do recall that -- as most young teachers -- I was quite ambitious, and was determined that I was going to do the best I could with this and I would stay after school many days, to do whatever I could during the day. I had always loved books, so, I don't think I put up any resistance at all against doing this.

RW: You cataloged and classified the collection?

NP: Yes. I did. I was able to do that as a result of the help that was given me. But I, as I look back on it, I don't think I ever... ever pretended to be trained in it. I was doing what I thought was a service until somebody could be employed who was trained. But it worked out pretty well in that the students were able to use the books.

RW: And this was 1936 to 1939?

NP: I think I was given that assignment about 1936 and I stayed there until 1939. And I probably would have done this longer, but I got married in 1939 and left. And I can't recall who succeeded me, but I think it was somebody who was trained. By that time they were able to get somebody.

RW: Did you go to any professional library meetings during this time?

NP: I certainly did. I came down here, as I recall---because I wanted to come down here anyway---and I came down to stay for some meetings. There was a librarian by the name of Mrs. [Lucille] Nix [Asst. State Supervisor for School Libraries] and she took an interest in helping me. At her invitaion, I came down.

RW: Was she teaching courses?

NP: I think she probably was. She was of immense help to me. And she not only knew me, but she was a very good friend of my husband's family, and lived right around the corner from his family, so that gave her an added interest in helping me.

RW: So you didn't take any classes for credit necessarily?

NP: No, because we really... I knew that I was not going to stay in the field. I was involved in my own major, and I felt all the time that I would go on with that rather than with the library work.

RW: Were you able, during the years that you were in the English department here -- or the communications department -- did you have a fairly intensive relationship with the library? Did you encourage library use?

NP: Yes. In fact, I suspect that I was one of the biggest boosters, you see, of the idea that reading is the essential ingredient in our work. Yes, we assigned -- just automatically -- an awful lot of reading to be done. And I was constantly involved -- and my students -- my department served all the students of the college. We started off serving all the students of the college for two years, and when I left, we were serving every student for two and a half years, because we had developed a humanities program that began the first semester of the sophomore year and extended through the first semester of the junior year, so that gave us an extra semester with all the students. And by serving every student in the college for that length of time, we felt a great responsibility for their interests or lack of interest.

RW: Was the library co-operative in helping you out through this time? Did you have to push them?

NP: They were as eager to help us as we were to use the library. We were mutually supportive of each other.

RW: So you feel that they were doing a good job of student services? Bibliographic instruction?

NP: Yes, I do. They did an excellent job. They kept us well informed through publications of acquisitions [lists] and other services. I believe they sent us either biweekly or monthly publications to let us know, and the thing that bothered us both -- our department and the library staff -- was the difficulty in motivating the students. They were having difficulty and we were having difficulty, and that was another reason we were working so hard try to stem a tide of indifference, I suppose.

RW: Sounds like during a lot of those early years that the library was not well supported financially.

NP: I got that impression all along. I'm not sure they're getting what they need today. There's been a fight for a long time to get adequate financing.

RW: So you were in the English department 35 years, practically... ?

NP: Yes.

RW: Were you chair all this time, until you...

NP: No, not until... I didn't became chair until '52. From '52 on until I retired.

RW: You retired when?

NP: In 1979.

RW: It's at that time, then, that Gov. Riley appoints you to the S.C. Committee on the Humanities?

NP: No, I've been on that...

RW: Let's see, Riley was elected in '80... he served 8 years, right?

NP: Yes. He was not the first Gov. to appoint me. Gov. Edwards was the first. But, what I was going to say is that I've been on that board... I'm the one person that's been on that board ever since it's inception... in 1970, I think it was.

RW: You are ready to retire then? It's been a good organization.

NP: It's been a good experience for me. I feel that we've done a great deal of good in the state. I was there when we just had a little bit on money with which to work and our funds have been constantly increased. Now we don't have enough money there, yet, but the funds have increased constantly through the years and the interest in the humanities over the state I think has grown. When we first started people didn't know what we were doing.

RW: Is the state supportive?

NP: They have helped stem a tide of resistance...a lot of that misunderstanding... and we've been able to cultivate a lot of friends over the state, over the years. And as I look back at some of the things or works that have been produced... I think we've done pretty well.

RW: Speaking of professional relationships, now I gather that you have been active in the state associations with teachers mainly, those kind of things... ?

NP: Yes. State, regional, national...

RW: What about within the state, in terms of associations... were you a member of the Palmetto Education Association....and those kinds of organizations?

NP: Yes. And my husband was the president of it for years. We were quite active and we were quite, I think, on the cutting edge of everything happening and responsible for the eventual integration.

RW: Tell me about that. How did that come about? What happened through the early years of your first involvement, on up until the 60's? Is this when the integration took place? What was it like during those early years in terms of relationships with the white professional associations?

NP: Well, at first it... we were like two opposing forces and distrustful of each other. But, as we began to see that we had mutual interests, and that in unity there would be strength -- because both sides were having problems with the state even -- teachers salaries and things like that.

RW: Neither one was getting enough money?

NP: That's right, neither one. We began to see that we could work easily together. I can recall that it was almost miraculous how attitudes began to change. It didn't take really very long once we got together.

RW: Was there just a refusal to talk during the early years?

NP: No, it wasn`t... there wasn't much of a refusal to talk as there was a coolness -- an aloofness. Now what many of us did, we cultivated people on a personal basis that we knew and that helped us to bring this together. Because you see, there are always people who will like people no matter what. They see in you something that they can appreciate and there was a good bit of that. I can recall that my husband happened to be a fellow that they liked pretty well and they would talk to him. And he was able to break down quite a few barriers because they began to trust him.

RW: This now in the late '50's?

NP: Late '50's.

RW: What about you in terms of relationships with the folks at USC?

NP: I began to get a lot of good friends there. I was trying to remember the name... I'm having trouble remembering names right now. This man -- you can probably help me remember this name -- went on to the University of Houston. He was head of the department of English there and he was very, very good -- very nice -- to me. Then one came along after that -- he died some years ago -- offered me a job. Well you see, he wanted me to leave -- they needed to integrate USC, too -- so he wanted me to come there to help. But I thought that my greater... that I was needed really here more than I would be needed there. So what I did, since I was able to hire some pretty good people with Ph.D`s in English... pretty good black people who had done well in that program. So, I offered them one of my black teachers.

RW: And they hired them... this is in the 60's, though.

NP: That' the 60's. We... I don't know if he's still there now, a Professor Kinney (?), I can remember his name, I was very interested in cooperative program between the two schools and he and I started an exchange program. He sent some of his people down here and I would send some of mine up there.

RW: And your husband meantime was working with PA and SCEA?

NP: Yes.

RW: He died in 60...?

NP: He died in 61..before he got... he died before he got a chance to see the results of his work. But he had been working for quite a few years... trying to get the two groups together.

RW: Now you say aloofness, I assume you mean, just aloofness, coolness from the white associations.

NP: Well... from both sides. There were some of us who were just cool toward approaching them as they were....

RW: Mistrustful of...

NP: Mistrustful of us, that's right.

RW: So it took a long number of years...

NP: It took a long number of years until things began to change. And that's one thing I have to say about SC in general: when the people began to change... they changed. It was really... it was remarkable, much faster and much more genuine than the people in the north or south... I have had experiences with them, too. And I say to my daughter all the time now, I've got much better friends -- white friends -- in the south, than you do in the north. And I believe that.

RW: What did she say about that?

NP: Well, naturally she's doubtful... but it's true.

RW: Does she feel it's still a problem... a segregated south?

NP: Yes. And I think it's unfortunate that she does. What she sees just does not exisit in many instances. She was always given... in the north she was given a distorted picture of what her own home was like.

RW: By newspapers and such?

NP: Yes, because you see, you'd be surprised to know what happens in the north. They look askance at anything that's going on in the south.

RW: So in '61 your husband died, and she left shortly thereafter and has not really been back...

NP: No, not for really any length of time...

RW: She knows about the troubles here... but not about the change?

NP: That's right she knows about the troubles and she doesn't know about the reforms.

RW: Now, is she married and everything and does it look like she's going to stay up there?

NP: She looks like she's going to stay up there. She's not married yet, but I don't think she's going to leave the northeast, she's sold on the northeast.

RW: It's interesting over what long period of time it takes change to occur, and you... just started in '44... '46??

NP: I suspect those of us who came through that period can be more appreciative of the changes that have taken place.


RW: You've been at it thirty years since the late 30's 'til the 60's, or something. That's a long time to see slow change and then to realize...

NP: When changes did take place, they were almost unbelievable, from my point of view.

RW: I still find it amazing that, in fact my kids who are now 13 and 11, say, "Were there really separate schools for whites and blacks?" It was as if they were unbelieving, and sometimes when I remember just how segregated it was, I can't believe the changes that took place, both amazing, and amazing as to why it didn't happen sooner. That's why its interesting to talk to those of you who have come through that long period of slow... of sometimes no change at all.

NP: No change at all. I suppose I have been so conditioned by everything that was going on that I come to believe that it was not going to change...

RW: ... ever going to change... I can see that, because things didn't really begin to change 'til the middle 60's. So you're talking literally 30 years with not a great deal of change. Beginnings of change I guess. The professional associations, did they start earlier than this? Did you begin to see movement within SCEA? ... between you and USC?...and I don't know, there was a SC association...Teachers of English, isn't there?

NP: Yes. I was president of that. When was I president? Must of been back in the 60's...

RW: Council of Teachers of English...'65...

NP: Really, that was an interesting experience. As I recall things things went along pretty well. I did move on pretty well, after we got together. Slowly before, yes.

RW: I see here something Barbara [Jenkins; Dir. SCSU Library] said to be sure to ask you about...the Sunlight Club and it's role as a library and your involvement in it as a community library.

NP: Yes, that's right. For a long time it was the community library for us. The wife of a former president of the college...a Mrs. (?)... I think her husband was a second or third (president?) started the Sunlight Club. She was the founder of an organization of women that went about the community doing whatever good they could do to uplift people in the community who had not had very...good opportunities for education or cultural advancement. One of the first things I think she thought of doing was to promote the establishment of a library where the people could go and get books to read. When I came down here to live as a young married woman, that library had been established -- that community library had been establish. My home, the first home my husband built for me was next door to the community center.... His family was active in it.... When I'm there and can recall the service that this library... I don't believe the room was as big as this room. But.. .

RW: The library room...

NP: The library room.

RW: ... was about 20' by 20' or something like that?

NP: Yes. I think she (?) got help from the college in classifying for awhile. I recall that she had part-time help there for circulating the books. They may have been college students who were working part-time, but there was a card catalog and people would go there and check out the books.

RW: And it was heavily used by folks in the community?

NP: Yes.

RW: No fee was charged?

NP: No. No fee was charged. I do recall many complaints about people returning books. They may have had some problem, but they must have been minimal because I... there would have been a great outcry if a great deal [were missing].... The thing that I do recall is that the books were pretty well used.

RW: What kind of collection...?

NP: Much of the collection was books, easy to read books, books on cooking, sewing, all the various crafts and there was a great deal of fiction. I think there might have been one or two sets of encyclopedias, but Mrs. Robinson (?) tended to simplify the situation as much as possible because of the clientele that she wanted us to serve.

RW: Did she want a broad spectrum of users?

NP: Yes. That went on for years, until, you know, other libraries [were developed]. Now I do want to point out that the reason that the usage was good -- that the library served such a good and useful purpose -- is that it was the only place at that time in the community that people -- that the black people -- could go. Because, you see, they were not accepted at the County Library.

RW: There was no other branch library at that time?

NP: Not at that time. There came along a branch, later. But when she started this there was no branch library.

RW: Now, Wilkinson High School served both as a... sort of a public library that black people could use.

NP: Yes, that's right. We said -- I remember this because my husband was the first principal of Wilkinson High School and he went up into the system 'til he became responsible for all the schools in the town... but he started out as the first principal of the first high school for blacks in the city. And I seem to recall when they got that branch library it was right next door to Wilkinson High School. Then as a part of Wilkinson.

RW: Right; I think that's what she [Barbara Jenkins] said... it served both. But that the two functions were separate in some way...I've forgotten...

NP: I've forgotten too, but I think that old building is still there. For some reason it was a separate building.

RW: Where did the money come from for the Sunlight Club..was it from donations and..

NP: Donations...

RW: This was mostly women now?

NP: Mostly women.

RW: You were active in this?

NP: Yes, very. Very active. I was a secretary for years. For years I was very active with that group. Now, in...we were only on donations for a long time. I can't recall the year, but it was some time later when we got some money wasn't United Way at that time...but the way of collections, like for charity. Oh, let me see, I think I am forgetting. I believe down the way, after, a long time after, Mrs. (?) was the president, she was able to get the county to give us a small amount of money. Maybe not for the library, but for the work of the Sunlight Club.

RW: Did it have other kinds of activities?

NP: Yes. There were other kinds of activities.

RW: Community? Recreational?

NP: Oh, yes. That's right. There was a community recreation center and the emphasis was particularly upon young people. We had a playground, that served the community and we had organized activities.

RW: But the library didn't receive...

NP: So we used some of that money that she was able to get after many, many years of struggling... from the county. It was a kind of general appropriation and I am not sure that she was restrictive in these....

RW: Before I forget, I am going to ask you. Was your high school library in Gaffney also a public library. Could folks in the community come and use that library?

NP: Not while I was there. It was just...we just were interested in serving our high school youngsters.

RW: Do you remember where blacks were able to go for public library service?

NP: I certainly don't. I really don't. There was a Cherokee County Library, but blacks were not using it.

RW: There probably was no service.

NP: There was no service as far as I can remember.

RW: Well, I think those are all my questions. Do you have any about the project or about anything we are doing or additional kinds of comments or observations that you want to make?

NP: No, I don't think so. I think that covered about everything I can think of.

RW: Well, it was a good interview.

NP: Thank you.

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